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My friend is newly jobless - and clueless

DAVID EDDIE

From Friday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 8:08 PM EST 20/02/09

He's going about the job hunt all wrong. If I point this out will he think I'm kicking him when he's down? ...Read the full article

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  1. More or Less from Canada writes: The Bank of Canada is in la-la land and this advice is bang on. The writer should show his friend this letter and response and tell him to get off his butt and hustle.
  2. Emma Goldman from Vancouver Island, Canada writes: Great advice. I think it's really true. I've been half heartedly applying for new jobs in order to eliminate a brutal commute, but as I really love my current job, I know I am completely lacking any hustle in my job search. Even though I probably have a lot better experience and qualifications than other applicants, I don't get interviews. I think it's possible that I am totally being out hustled by the young, the hungry, and the desperate. And that's fine for me, for now.
    So tell your friend to get out there and stay out of that bathrobe.
  3. Been There Done That from Canada writes: Bang on. Really have been there and done that. The first time, the severance was good, there were a couple of lucrative projects and I let things drag on waaay too long. Tough to get back in the game. i was panic stricken without an ounce of self-confidence -- it took a bit of luck to get back into the workforce. Next time, I hustled right away, got a position without panic having to set in and was in control of the situation throughout. I agree -- give the jobless guy this advice column, he'll thank you for it later.
  4. D M from Canada writes: I knew it! I KNEW before I came to the comments section someone would just complain about the BoC comment and not concentrate on the story. And it only took until the first comment!

    Great advice again, Eddie, and great story too. (True? Cuz even if not, I wouldn't mind it, it was so spot-on. 'Get out of the bathrobe..' What a metaphor.)

    I was out of a job just awhile ago, but had an offer at an OK job but at TOO little money - practically not worth it. BUT, I took it (telling them that I was still going to look for more work and it was ok for them), not for the money, but so it would LOOK like I was employed. I walked into an interview a couple weeks later, confident, because hey, I already had a job, and had it 2 hours later. I think part of it was just that I could tell them (maybe not so directly), 'Hey, well, I don't NEED this job, but it looked so good, I needed to apply!'

    I would get out and get SOMETHING, even if it's someone obscure so you could say, 'Oh, I'm consulting right now for different clientele.' Makes you so much more desirable...
  5. Salty Dog from Canada writes:

    Any work is better than no work, especially but not necessarily if you are upfront about flight as D M: good for you, I like integrity.

    Please don't waste my time with a half a$$ed attempt to find work while happily employed elsewhere, I know you would be a half a$$ed employee for me too.

    Splurge $20 on a primer, Smart Woman's Guide to Resumes & Job Hunting: King.

    Success.
  6. Salty Dog from Canada writes: Splurge $20 on a primer, Smart Woman's Guide to Resumes & Job Hunting: King.

    Keep the receipt. You can deduct it as an education expense on income tax.
  7. Charlotte Creamer from Halifax, Canada writes: There's an air of entitlement in these comments (and in the article), as if there's a system to achieving success, and once you've found it and apply it, you're on your way. Don't shoot the messenger, but that's not always the case. Sometimes, no matter how much shoe leather you wear out, or how sincere your need, you come up empty. There are more variables involved in finding work than simply wanting to find work, working to find work, and wearing appropriate attire while looking for work. The most important variable is the state of your personal life. Most interviewers can sniff out emotional chaos or fragility within the first few minutes of the interview, and it's not a smell that enhances your profile. It's more the whiff of interview death. I used to run a job-finding club. What I discovered was that regardless of how qualified the candidates were or how 'ready' they felt to re-enter the job market, what invariably kept them from finding work was their emotional state. If they were having personal problems, it impacted on the sincerity of their confidence. I spent a good deal of time with my clients just listening to their stories and handing over kleenex. I was more a shoulder to cry on than a resume tweaker. My experience in this industry has been that job-seekers need to get their own houses in order first before heading out to conquer the world.
  8. Ursula Seawitch from Canada writes: Very enjoyable read as usual DE. And very timely in this terrible market. I'm sure we all know people who have recently been laid off. This artlce should appear today in the report on business section, where the job seekers will be reading instead of the Life section.
    I also agree with the previous comment that sometimes no matter what you do the jobs are just not there. I would think advertising is a particularly difficult job to get right now because if companies are struggling the first thing they will cut is their advertising budget.

    I always look forward to your column DE.
  9. j m from Canada writes: I remember reading something many years ago that recommended getting dressed 'to the shoes'.

    The author's point was that if you put shoes on, you are going someplace - there is a purpose to your day.
  10. Kevin Desmoulin from TO, Canada writes: Ya, people can tell if you slacking, or not really into it, PT student is a good cover, but that 's all. Must keep the disciplince up and really put forward a good effort and for some people, this new is the norm.
  11. Marvin60 4q from Canada writes: I think it was Woody Allen that said, 'Eighty percent of success is just showing up.' And in normal economic times (however one may define 'normal') he's probably right. But the rules have changed. Like it or not, we live on shifting sands. It's no longer just 'hustling' that works. Sure, it's part of it - a big part - but the simple fact is that if, for instance, your chosen occupation is blacksmithing to create horseshoes, all the hustle in the world isn't going to help you get new work. There simply isn't much of a market for horseshoes. Shifting sands means you may not only have to shift your approach and get out of your damn bathrobe, you may have to shift your entire focus. Also, is any job better than no job? One school of thought seems to go, 'Yes, of course. Providing income for yourself and your family is of primary importance. How could you think otherwise?' But another school has a different take: 'Be careful of the jobs you apply to, and only accept an offer that's congruent with who you are and what you do. Being stuck in a job, or being pigeon-holed into an industry or type of role, that's unsuitable for your skill-set and your raison d'être is a fast track to massive stress in the home and maybe even an early grave.' Tough call, and there's no easy answer.
  12. Winni Pegger from Canada writes: I've done the hustle so many times (who says an arts degree isn't useful?). What really helped me was temping while looking for a job. The pay sucks, you have to look professional on a pittance and there is zero status to being a temp. But at least you accumulate some references and are not at home eagerly answering every phone call, sounding desperate.

    Plus, I got my best-paid job through a temp agency. If you work hard for each and every position the agency will start giving you the better jobs. Most of the better jobs are acutally open, and the office is desperate - that's why the employers are willing to pay more to fill them.
  13. Virginia Durksen from Edmonton, Canada writes: DE's bathrobe advice applies to self-employed professionals as well. I would never hire a contractor who brags about his no-suit no-shoes lifestyle. I guarantee the fact that he is working in his bathrobe will show up in his work. Hire the contractor who shows up in business attire, not casual Friday 'because I'm more creative than you' attire. No shirt, no shoes, no job.
  14. j h from fort mcmoney, ab, Canada writes: Charlotte Creamer has hit one of the nails square on the head. your emotional state is visible to the trained eye unless you have trained yourself to not show it - and few if any of us have that level of understanding. unless the employer is so short staffed that they'll take almost anyone, you cannot appear desperate. the article mentions the wordy letters - they are a sure ticket to the round file. his resume needs to be NO MORE THAN 2 PAGES, and the cover letter forms a bridge between the resume and the opprotunity. the opportunity requires this and this education (see there and there in the resume) and requires that and that experience (i did that with this success here and here). there are so many job seekers and so few jobs AND the decision-makers are so short on time, that your letter and resume have about 30 seconds to grab their attention. even if the person is someone you know, they don't have any more time than anyone else for wordy, joking, unfocussed, un-businesslike approaches. pretend you don't know them from adam. take a good analytical look (or get help doing so) at your skill set. what kinds of work can you do - expand your vision to look at all industries and all types of work. maybe you could work for yourself. AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST, you must always keep your eyes and ears open to both the business battle that rages around you and opportunities that may crop up. you must act like the CEO of your own company (yes that's you), just like the CEO of the company you work for. their job is to find work, sell the company profile, make money. you job for yourself is no different. if you settle back and think your set for life with your job, you are DOOMED. i started working for myself in late 1999. i am ALWAYS thanking my lucky stars for the work i have, listening to what goes on around me, and PRETENDING IT WILL END TOMORROW.
  15. Rebecca Winter from Toronto, Canada writes: Thank you DE- you are a joy to read.

    After graduating from a grueling undergrad course, our son sent out email applications for a year and finally got an interview. The interview was going well until he asked about future possibilities within the company. The interview came to a quick end. ( My guess is that the company was looking for someone who would work endlessly at a tedious job with no future.) Our son was devastated as were his parents- a full year and now this crushing disappointment. I forced myself to point out to him that sometimes the worst moments in life prove to be a turning point to a better future. I knew it was technically true but I certainly didn't feel it at the time. Nevertheless because he lost that job, he went back to grad school and now he is deliriously happy in his dream job.

    One thing this economic shake up reminds me, is that at the end of it all- it is our lives we're spending at work. Bad enough to see our savings evaporate- but far worse if you've spent the past twenty years doing something you hate doing- just to save that money. I think that it's worth the struggle and maybe financial compromise to find something worthwhile..personally rewarding at some level.
  16. Addie Bundren from Canada writes: Bit of a long-winded answer. 'Get to the point, already.' Wasn't that part of the point. And if it's true that a lot of these people (on the board) are better qualified than the people who do the so called hustle and get the jobs--a skill that likely has little to do with what they'd do on the job if they got it--then isn't there something of an inflexible, say straight-jacket, mentality to a system that is perhaps much more in need of fixing than the alleged bathrobe wearer of this tale who is merely doing what he is good at?
  17. ron marshall from Armpit, Canada writes: It also helps a heck of a lot if you have an 'IN' - like a person working for a company with the authority or influence to assist you in gaining employment!
    Sometimes I think that is the most important thing of all - Find a way to get to know people and impress them - would be my advice. Take up Golf or Bowling - get a life, be sociable, and life may yet become a bowl of cherries? (Instead of the pits)
    Work all of your current contacts - realatives, friends, everyone - be shameless and kiss A__ if necessary - I mean do you really want a job or you are just playing at it? You have to work at getting a job and then work at doing a job to be a success!
  18. S H from Texas, United States writes: I owned a temp agency for most of a decade, and congratulate Winni on finding her best paying job that way. Essentially, she had an agent working for her for free in a tough business that requires dependability for success. A really good temp employee is worth their weight in gold and hard to find, and who do you think they thought of every time a client had an opening? Who is dependable, works hard, people like, on time, won't leave us with egg on our face when a client has given us a hundred grand in revenues before? I can recall a lot of temps who were so good they should have run the world, and of course, many were snatched up full time by the client, sometimes after one day or one week. No guarantees in life, but another option for a job seeker at a time when employers bombarded by four hundred resumes for one opening might rather just call an agency and let them handle it the easy way. Congratulations again, Winni.
  19. Neon Cab from Canada writes: I'm not out there (yet) but last time I was I found that I had to put as much work into looking for work as I would have into the work itself. I had to get up early, makea routine trip to the job centre, dedicate sufficient time to my resume and cover letters and keep up with my training (regardless of how informal it was because I couldn't pay for more without a paycheque coming in). I dressed to the shoes because I made myself leave the house just as I would have if was going to a paying job.
    That said, unless you're looking for junior-level work it is better to have a job when searching than to not -- even if means temping or putting in a half-a$$ed attempt while at another job. Any new employer should be able to see that you will dedicate your full attention to your new position as long as they satisfy your reasons for wanting to get away from your current one.
  20. Helen Highwater from Qualicum Beach, Canada writes: If this guy was living paycheque to paycheque and up to his hairline in debt, why in heaven's name did they decide to have a third child? In fact, anybody who decides to have a child in these uncertain times is living in la-la land. The world already has nearly 7 billion people, and obviously there are not enough jobs and resources to support all the people we already have. This recession is not going to end, folks, and if you think it is you are in la-la land too. Even if you have a job, you can't count on it lasting.
  21. Marvin60 4q from Canada writes: S H from Texas, United States writes: I owned a temp agency for most of a decade... might rather just call an agency and let them handle it the easy way. ------------------------------- As one who has had, at times, the misfortune of brief spells of unemployment and tried to get by by temping, I must take issue with this. Never in my life have I ever been treated worse, with more disdain or less consideration, than I was when I was temping. From unkept promises ('I'll get back to you before the end of the week') to ignoring messages to not showing up for meetings to having to fight to get the agency to follow-through on the contracted obligations (usually pay-related) and on and on and on, my personal experience with temping was little short of a disaster. But vengeance is sweet. Soon after a particularly difficult temp experience, I was offered, and accepted, a position which occasionally required working with a temp agency. And those very same people who treated me like dirt when I was looking for work were suddenly fawning all over me because I had the power to accept or reject their agency. Needless to say, those agencies that disregarded me in my hour of need never made the short list when the shoe was on the other foot. If calling a temp agency is 'the easy way,' I shudder to think what the 'hard way' might be.
  22. Geof Wyght from Cincinnati, United States writes: Good advice. I've been in the bathrobe before.
  23. Yvonne Wackernagel from Woodville, Canada writes: Attitudes must change. These are not normal times. Any job is going to be better than No job, in the near to medium term. You must be prepared to do more than your share without seeming to impose; be congenial, courteous and try to appear happy in a quiet way. Keep your personal business to yourself. If you have credentials which are greater than necessary for any particular job, in my opinion there is nothing wrong in suggesting that you might like to think that you would be considered for any promotion within the firm; it all depends on how you say it because I think any employer should get the message that you want to stay with the firm and take an interest in its prosperity if there is a chance for promotion. (I don't agree with the person who said that the interview ended when that question was asked; I think it ended on HOW the question was formulated). AND be professionally courteous and helpful to the clients or customers without gushing; let them know with your attitude that you will always be there to help. A lot of people think that some kinds of work are menial; to the contrary, it depends on your attitude: you can PROVE that you are capable of doing greater things by how you behave, particularly your attitude with your co-workers; management WILL notice, even though you might not be aware that they are watching. Actually, sometimes customers will seek you out because of the service you give to your present employer. AND LASTLY, try to be content and cheerful at all times; even your spouse will then get on board to help you to remain positive and happy. MONEY IS NOT EVERYTHING.
  24. Ziad Fazel from Calgary, Canada writes: In a previous job, I wore the stern project manager hat in conference calls with Asian suppliers and European distributors, at all hours. I told a co-worker I wore a t-shirt and boxers most of the time. He laughed, saying he was usually naked on those calls.

    Awkward.

    I went back to dress shirts and khaki pants for weeks, even for the 2am calls to Ireland, before I could feel comfortable on those calls again.

    Similar story - different co-worker. His son threw up while he was on a conference call with our team, and we heard it all: the first blast, the hazardous spill containment response, and the speedy trip to the bathroom. Poor guy did not have a chance to hit mute properly.

    Nothing brings people from all over the world together like dropping work for a few minutes, and talking about our kids, to the distant sounds of a loving parent taking care of his own sick one.
  25. ron marshall from Armpit, Canada writes: I beg to disagree with Wackernagel about one small thing and it is?
    She said 'money is not everything'
    My correction is 'Money is everything'

    At least in the real world! (Sorry for my disagreement Wackernagel - it's nothing personal - i am sure you are avery nice person)
    BUT - money is the primary reason for almost everything that ever happens in the real world today - seriously - just look at the facts! What are the current crisis all about and the big news about an Obama bailout package? (stimulus they call it now - apparently being stimulated with our tax dollars - gee - thanks Obama - how much are you contributing? why do I feel unstimulated - I guess because the loot isn't flowing in my direction? Water doesn't run uphill - but it looks like my tax money does?)
  26. S H from Texas, United States writes: Marv - How do you think some job applicants and client employer companies alike were to deal with? Just the same as you describe, and one time was one time too many.
  27. ron marshall from Armpit, Canada writes: I have never been OUTOFWORK! (and I'm 70)
    My Ex- boss asked me - what is your ambition - and i said - to get your job! He said what are you willing to do to achieve that fine goal - i said work hard! He said - OK your job is secure as long as you do that ! I said but I want your bosses job as a future goal - he said - really? and i said - REALLY! Eventually, I ended up being his boss - and i was a good boss - and i was always pleasant and sociable!
    WHY did I end up being his boss - was it my personality or good looks - NO! ? I just worked harder than he did - So whom won - that is up to the philosophers in the crowd to decide - not the workers like me! My wife eventually divorced me because i spent too much time wotrking - The divorce was Best thing that ever happened to me, as a matter of fact!
  28. Mr. Dis Illusioned from Canada writes: What if your skill set and chosen profession is as a . . .bathrobe model?
  29. thomson gary from Canada writes: If there are a lot of 'competitors' for positions out there, and, after all, you only need one job, then whose to say making tourself stick out with a humorous, folksy letter is a bad thing. Maybe he'll land a job with a humorous, folksy boss.
  30. Another Opinion from Toronto, Canada writes: I respect the notion of being a 'hustla', but I have also seen the impact of such a mindset when it doesn't pay off. Assertiveness has to be tempered with patience, or it will quickly turn to desperation.

    I've faced employment challenges, and I made a point of trying to be productive every day. Sometimes it meant looking for work, while other times it meant doing home renovation or volunteer work. I may not have been the most aggressive job-hunter in the world, but I always had something to do. Something that boosted my confidence and made me feel like I was adding value.

    The only world you control is the one inside your head and nobody can stay positive ALL the time. It simply isn't natural. Don't just find A job, find the RIGHT job, and make sure that the day you walk in the door the feeling you have is pride.... not relief.
  31. ron marshall from Armpit, Canada writes: Mr. Dis Illusioned from Canada writes: What if your skill set and chosen profession is as a . . .bathrobe model?

    Sounds like a bit tongue-in-cheek and humorous to me, and I'm sure it is - but let's assume the guy is serious, shall we? Hmm?
    My question would have to be - where on earth do you go to get a skill set as a bathroom model? You must have attended York University - while they were on strike? (just guessing about your credentials - so - was 'bathrobe' your major?)
  32. L.B. MURRAY from !! from Canada writes: Excellent advice.
    Ditch the bathrobe and put your shoes on.
    And please, please, forget about having a 3rd child.

    -
  33. Mr. Dis Illusioned from Canada writes: ron marshall from Armpit, Canada writes:

    My question would have to be - where on earth do you go to get a skill set as a bathroom model? You must have attended York University - while they were on strike? (just guessing about your credentials - so - was 'bathrobe' your major?)

    Mr Armpit. . for the sake of your imagination; if I was a student at York during the strike. .that would make you a what??. . . a TA?!?!?
  34. Moving Faster from G'ville, Canada writes: Ridiculous. Working hard never kept a job, I can't believe people have such a pollyanna attitude. Amazing in the 21st century. As far as job searching goes, it's a young person's game out there; even the gov't of ontario doesn't support ageism claims anymore-it's on their website. I'm starting up my own company after 2.5 years of looking for a job in the high-tech industry, trying to get past HR people who don't know squat about the positions they hire for is a knack I never mastered. Their loss.
  35. H B from Canada writes: Don't always agree with this column, but the bathrobe story was a gem! I've been let go twice - once in a bankruptcy, once in a big cost-cutting exercise. The second time, I dressed every morning and sat at my desk and "worked" to find work. I'd spend half my day applying for jobs, networking by email, and when I'd exhausted that day's opportunities, by keeping track of developments in my industry, maintaining spreadsheets and developing business ideas. Quick nap and workout in the early afternoon, then throw my energy into some volunteer projects I suddenly had time to do. It was actually quite an exciting five months. There was huge financial stress, of course. But, I felt useful, confident, and energized. The end product of my volunteer activities continues to this day, and I stepped into my new position ready to contribute without a lot of catch-up.

    If you're out of work, do yourself a favour - keep "working". You owe it to yourself to maybe start your "day" closer to 10 than 9, and knock off closer to 4 than 5, take a nap and enjoy being off the clock for a while, but make sure you don't find yourself sitting around in your bathrobe. The writer's boss was right - people can hear it and see it when you're on a downward spiral.
  36. Grampa Canuck from Belleville, ON, Canada writes: Back when I knew how little my father knew and how smart I was, he would occasionally say stupid things like "you have to make a job out of finding a job" and "give more than is expected of you and you will get more than you expect." Well, it's amazing how much smarter your father gets as you get older...even after he's been gone 40 years.
  37. Total Serenity from Canada writes: Why not just offer to work for half the pay? if 'hustling' is what it is all about. Or how about offering to not take lunch breaks? You've got to beat the other guy after all. You need to do more. Maybe if you ran ten times faster than the other guy. Suck up harder is the message the world is always trying to shove down our throats and it is why nobody can afford to feed their families any more

    I remember the recession of the '90's (back when recessions were a lot worse in Canada than they were in the US) and I was looking for a job then. I got the offer to help do some volunteering by helping the maintenance guy down at my church. Not only was it humbling, it taught me a few things, got me out of the house and gave me something to focus on. It also got me a good paying job real fast. Unusually fast considering it was a recession.

    Looking back on it I figured that the devil would rather have me working at a secular job than working for free for the big guy so he must have stopped interfering in my job search. The eternal rewards are a lot lower that way I suppose so the next time I am unemployed the first place I am going to call is my church to find out if there is any work around there that needs doing for a few hours per day. I will give half my day to the church and half my day to a job search and I bet I'll find a job faster than the guy who gives his whole day to job searching
  38. Mike L. from Canada writes: HB and Grampa, you're both right on. I was going to write just that, "when you lose your job, make your job getting a job". Get up, get dressed, go to the "office" even if it's the computer corner in the basement, get your CV up to date, and get crackin'. Happened to me twice about 25 years ago and each time, I ended up walking out of the layoff on Friday and into the new job on Monday in an era when unemployment was up over 10%.

    And for Moving Faster: I don't know how old you are but I am 50 and work in High Tech as an analyst, a job I love. I decided to enter that field at 46 after a career in a dying smokestack industry, and found my first job after a search of about 1 month while still employed. I did it for two years and quit due to a brutal commute and started my second job in that field, which I obtained at 48 and for which I mostly telecommute.

    Yes, when I got into the field I took a major ($15k) pay cut. But I did like Grampa Canuck says: I gave more than expected of an old geezer on his second career, and after only ONE year in the field I survived 4 layoffs at my firm with a promotion and a $15k raise. Someone figured out that maturity and a steady hand on the helm, and someone who didn't whine about working conditions (after paper mills this was a holiday!) was worth something.

    Nobody "owes" us a job.

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carefulspider says...

Good advice. Be productive at something and then the confidence naturally comes with it and is far more attractive than desperation or the sense that it has to be done.